Post by Empty on Oct 21, 2010 18:48:02 GMT -8
This thread has been created to discuss two points
>> How would you rank the known canon releases (non plot kai) in terms of the increase in energy that the user obtains? eg. Shikai, Bankai, Sanrei Glove, Resurrección etc
>> Do you think that for BNT the increase provided by the releases should be faithful to the canon, or that some other system should be implemented? If so please explain
Identifying and Comparing Release Power
For the following comments I have split it up between canon (where it exists) and what I think would be appropriate for BNT, given the assumption that the absolute maximum potential for any race (with all of their available releases) is similar; this assumption has been made not strictly in regards to the canon, but rather for balanced game play between races.
Personally I feel that the maximum rank that any character (OC/CC) can reach with stringent canon exceptions, should be dependant on race, such that most are capable of achieving [EL-S] - with all of the releases available to their race activated. Yet the maximum some races should be able to reach is slightly lower, perhaps EL-W.
This means that a race with many releases will have a lower limit on their sealed power levels, so that when combined with their releases they are not given an advantage over other races. At the same time, those races with fewer releases should be able to have a higher limit, since it will not be increased by the same number of releases.
Partial ranks equate to an increase in EACH proficiency as stated:
» 0.25 is an one level increase, Beginner > Practitioner, or, Practitioner > Expert etc
» 0.5 is a two level increase, Beginner > Expert, or, Practitioner > Master etc
When Master is reached, the next level is Beginner of the next rank. Note, that the +2 Rank limit applies not just to their energy level, but all proficiencies and capabilities.[/spoiler]
At the highest ranks, the user is approaching their limits even without gaining access to their releases, therefore the release is being limited by their full capacity, this is the major hurdle when attempting to compare to monsters like Yamamoto / Aizen who are at [EL-G] without using their releases.
Living Souls are not quite as powerful as 'dead' souls in terms of their base maximum, this is because they are boosted in death and can go through evolution and the like, yet with their releases they are capable of reaching the same heights.
Of all the 'dead' souls, only Modsouls are unable to reach the full maximum, this is to stay true to how they are portrayed in Bleach; however their limit has been boosted, so that it is comparable to that of their counterparts. [/spoiler]
>> How would you rank the known canon releases (non plot kai) in terms of the increase in energy that the user obtains? eg. Shikai, Bankai, Sanrei Glove, Resurrección etc
>> Do you think that for BNT the increase provided by the releases should be faithful to the canon, or that some other system should be implemented? If so please explain
Identifying and Comparing Release Power
For the following comments I have split it up between canon (where it exists) and what I think would be appropriate for BNT, given the assumption that the absolute maximum potential for any race (with all of their available releases) is similar; this assumption has been made not strictly in regards to the canon, but rather for balanced game play between races.
Bankai, an even larger boost than the shikai, personally I would suggest that it probably results in a similar increase for shinigami and vizard in the canon, enabling them to fight on the same level as someone of a rank above the level they can with a shikai, but for BNT I would suggest that it should give a smaller boost for vizards than for shinigami, because vizards also have their masks.
Hollow Mask, shown to have a considerable effect for vizards, enabling them to fight on the same level as someone of a rank above, for BNT I would suggest that the increase given for the Hollow Mask should be the difference between what the bankai of a shinigami and the bankai of a vizard amounts to (i.e. a vizard with mask and bankai is no more powerful than a shinigami of the same rank with bankai) OR that the vizard is not able to reach as high a rank as a shinigami.
Increased powers in Reishi Rich environments, shown in bounts, quincy and some other humans, has been demonstrated to be a considerable factor, but the extent is unknown, for BNT purposes I suggest that it would usually be similar to a shikai or less, depending on the race of the user
Merged State, shown to have a massive effect capable of rivalling a bankai, for BNT purposes I would suggest a similar level of power increase
Resurrección, shown to have varying degrees of power, for low level arrancar it is shown to have a significantly smaller effect than is shown for higher level arrancar; this is not as seen with shinigami releases such as shikai/bankai, which are plateau or 'flat' type releases resulting in a similar level in the increase of power, a Resurrección on the other hand seems to provide a 'sloped' increase in power
Sanrei Glove Removal, shown to have a massive effect, enabling a quincy to overpower someone of a higher rank with ease, probably something like a two rank increase in power, significantly more than a bankai, for BNT, given that the release is only temporary and cannot be done a second time, I would consider it as powerful as a bankai, with the user freed up to increase their power level by one rank afterwards
Shikai, a marked increase in shinigami/vizard abilities, however has been shown to be less than a Bankai, personally I would suggest that it probably results in a similar increase for shinigami and vizard in the canon, enabling them to fight on the same level as someone of a rank above as they can without a release, but for BNT I would suggest that it should give a smaller boost for vizards than for shinigami, because vizards also have their masks.
Transfixion, I'm treating this in the same way as Resurrección.
Personally I feel that the maximum rank that any character (OC/CC) can reach with stringent canon exceptions, should be dependant on race, such that most are capable of achieving [EL-S] - with all of the releases available to their race activated. Yet the maximum some races should be able to reach is slightly lower, perhaps EL-W.
This means that a race with many releases will have a lower limit on their sealed power levels, so that when combined with their releases they are not given an advantage over other races. At the same time, those races with fewer releases should be able to have a higher limit, since it will not be increased by the same number of releases.
| Releases | Release Increase |
| Resurrección / Transfixion | Rank dependant: » [AL-A] +1 Rank » [AL-S] +1.25 Ranks » [ML-W] +1.5 Ranks » [ML-A] +1.75 Ranks » [ML-S] +2 Ranks |
| Shikai | Race Dependant: » Shinigami +1 Rank » Vizard +0.75 Ranks |
| Bankai | Race Dependant: » Shinigami +2 Ranks » Vizard +1.5 Ranks |
| Hollow Mask | +0.5 Ranks |
| Merged State / Sanrei Glove Removal | +2 Ranks |
| Increased powers in Reishi Rich environments | +0.5 Ranks |
| Custom Releases | Total of Releases cannot exceed +2 Ranks |
Partial ranks equate to an increase in EACH proficiency as stated:
» 0.25 is an one level increase, Beginner > Practitioner, or, Practitioner > Expert etc
» 0.5 is a two level increase, Beginner > Expert, or, Practitioner > Master etc
When Master is reached, the next level is Beginner of the next rank. Note, that the +2 Rank limit applies not just to their energy level, but all proficiencies and capabilities.[/spoiler]
| Race | Max without Releases | Max with ALL Releases |
| Arrancar | [EL-A] | [EL-S] |
| Bount | [EL-A] | [EL-S] |
| Hollow | [EL-A] | [EL-S] |
| Human | [EL-W] | [EL-S] |
| Modified Soul | [EL-W] | [EL-A] |
| Murmur | [EL-A] | [EL-S] |
| Quincy | [EL-W] | [EL-S] |
| Shinigami | [EL-A] | [EL-S] |
| Vizard | [EL-A] | [EL-S] |
At the highest ranks, the user is approaching their limits even without gaining access to their releases, therefore the release is being limited by their full capacity, this is the major hurdle when attempting to compare to monsters like Yamamoto / Aizen who are at [EL-G] without using their releases.
Living Souls are not quite as powerful as 'dead' souls in terms of their base maximum, this is because they are boosted in death and can go through evolution and the like, yet with their releases they are capable of reaching the same heights.
Of all the 'dead' souls, only Modsouls are unable to reach the full maximum, this is to stay true to how they are portrayed in Bleach; however their limit has been boosted, so that it is comparable to that of their counterparts. [/spoiler]